Note how he starts by saying that the US Government is barred from collecting trace data and once that is pointed out as simply untrue he soon declares that they can't use computers while collecting trace data (the trace data he had earlier claimed was forbidden). He never acknowledged the link to either the ATF's state by state trace data or the ATF's computerized trace database (since he thinks the ATF can't use computers then he must imagine the servers are run by squirrels fulfilling http packet requests).
Is he really impenetrable or is he just throwing things at the wall in the hope that something will stick?
Mr Jordan's beclowning is below the fold.
In the 1970’s the US did some research and found that 57% of guns found at crime scenes could be traced back to just 1% of guns shops.
Today, the US government is barred from doing such research and as a result shutting down suspect gun shops. Thank you NRA.
Mr. Jordon (Reply)
Sat 19 Jan 13 (01:25pm)
D S Craft replied to Mr. Jordon
Sat 19 Jan 13 (02:11pm)
So, Mr. Jordan, let’s see if I understand you correctly. When you refer to ‘gun shops’ I assume you’re referring to legally licensed gun dealerships. So, because people who purchased a gun from a ‘gun shop’ then went on to commit a crime with that gun, the gun shop is criminally liable? I mean, how do you get a gun from a gun shop? You either purchase it legally or you steal it. Either way the gun shop is not responsible for how the product is used after the sale. That would be like saying car dealerships are responsible for the actions of someone who bought one of their cars. Really? No, Mr. Jordan, I don’t think so. So, yes, thank you NRA.
sdog replied to Mr. Jordon
Sat 19 Jan 13 (02:41pm)
In addition to having not much to do with the original post you are commenting on, you are wrong. That research was conducted for the BATF and the report came out in 1996, not “the 1970’s”.
This is what happens when you crib all your “facts” from The Comedy Channel.
Byron in Wahroonga replied to Mr. Jordon
Sat 19 Jan 13 (02:45pm)
***Today, the US government is barred from doing such research***
LOL. You really do write your own punch lines, Jordy.
Col. Milquetoast replied to Mr. Jordon
Sat 19 Jan 13 (04:37pm)
In the 1970’s the US did some research and found that 57% of guns found at crime scenes could be traced back to just 1% of guns shops.
If you would link to the research then it might gain you some credibility. Most people already realize that violent crime is concentrated in relatively small areas of America. A concentration of criminals is not necessarily a sign of a corrupt gun shop.
Today, the US government is barred from doing such research and as a result shutting down suspect gun shops.
Have you never heard of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF)? They trace guns used in crimes, regulate gun shops and have the power to shut down corrupt gun shops.
Perhaps you are thinking of Congress limiting the Center for Disease Control’s funding of anti-2nd Amendment research. Specifically, CDC funds may not “be used to advocate or promote gun control.” Note that the CDC is not prevented from including firearms in research or prevented from including firearms injuries in the wisqars database etc.
Not only do many people find it appalling that the government would fund research attacking the rights of citizens but many people will also point out that guns are inanimate objects and not, in fact, a disease.
JeffS replied to Mr. Jordon
Sun 20 Jan 13 (03:14am)
All these assertions, and not link one to back them. Typical leftie “logic”.
Landru replied to Mr. Jordon
Sun 20 Jan 13 (05:42am)
“Today, the US government is barred from...”
They should be the first words in every law passed by Congress, as well as the opening line of the national anthem.
Mr. Jordon replied to Mr. Jordon
Sun 20 Jan 13 (08:25am)
sdog Sorry I meant 1990’s. And thank you for providing the link. It proves my point.
Col. Milquetoast And if you did some reap search you would know that the ATF hasn’t had a dedicated director for 6 years. It’s an impotent organisation which is massively under staffed.
D S Craft So the possibility that these 1% of shops might be connected to organised crime just isn’t in your reality. You do know that the Mafia for example conduct much of their business from within legal business’.
sdog replied to Mr. Jordon
Mon 21 Jan 13 (12:43am)
“In the 1970’s the US did some research...”
“Today, the US government is barred from doing such research”
Your two main claims were demonstrably, incontrovertibly wrong.
This is what happens when you crib all your “facts” from The Comedy Channel.
I’d quit before beclowning myself further, if I were you. #caring
Col. Milquetoast replied to Mr. Jordon
Mon 21 Jan 13 (03:44am)
Sorry I meant 1990’s. And thank you for providing the link. It proves my point.
What it actually shows is that gun shops who do a high volume and are in high population density areas (which are often high crime areas) have more traces than a gun shop in a little town in the boondocks of Wyoming. Shocking. BTW, I wonder what conclusion Jordan would come to with the knowledge that over 70% of all murders committed in Illinois are committed in less than 1% of Illinois Counties (Cook County)?
And if you did some reap search you would know that the ATF hasn’t had a dedicated director for 6 years. It’s an impotent organisation which is massively under staffed.
Contrary to your previous assertions, the “impotent” ATF can look at trace data and they can investigate suspect gun shops and they can revoke a dealer’s Federal Firearm License. If they need a dedicated director to know that they should arrest people for breaking the law then the ATF has much deeper problems. Perhaps we could convince the acting director of the ATF to send a memo to the employees that they should spend less time letting guns walk to Mexico and more time trying to arrest actual criminals.
Hi! Welcome to the internet where people can check your assertions. From 2000 to 2010 the number of ATF employees has grown from 4221 to 5025 and the budget has grown from $565,959,000 to $1,114,772,000. More people and more resources but the number of FFL type01 dealers to be regulated has decreased between 2000 and 2010.
In the US there is a thing called due process and evidence that should be used to shut down businesses and arrest people. Mr Jordan saying something is suspect isn’t enough.
Mr. Jordon replied to Mr. Jordon
Mon 21 Jan 13 (12:49pm)
“The restrictions on ATF are absurd,” says Jon Lowy of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. “They’re not allowed to use computers in doing their trace work. They’re not allowed to do more than one spot inspection on a gun dealer.”sdog
“You need somebody there who has ownership and is going to be there for the long haul and can start projecting a couple years out, versus people who are just brought in for a temporary fix,” Bouchard says.
Obama has nominated a permanent director, but there hasn’t even been a hearing on the nomination because of opposition from the gun lobby.
Apart from the year you haven’t presented any evidence that I’m wrong. In fact you provided a document that proved me right.
Col. Milquetoast
5025 employees? Your kidding right? The Dept of Agriclture has over 100,000 employees.
Col. Milquetoast replied to Mr. Jordon
Mon 21 Jan 13 (07:15pm)
“They’re not allowed to use computers in doing their trace work.”
No, they aren’t allowed to create a computerized registration of legal gun owners who have committed no crime. The ATF can get trace requests from a computer, then they use a series of phone calls to do the trace and then the trace data goes in a computerized database. Hey, remember when you claimed the Feds weren’t allowed to collect trace data?
“You need somebody there who has ownership and is going to be there for the long haul and can start projecting a couple years out, versus people who are just brought in for a temporary fix,” Bouchard says.
That shows an embarrassingly low standard for all the ATF administrators.
Apart from the year you haven’t presented any evidence that I’m wrong. In fact you provided a document that proved me right.
Hey, remember when you claimed the Feds weren’t allowed to collect trace data? You have asserted that the mafia controls the 1% of gun shops responsible for 57% of gun traces. From spot’s link only 8.6% of guns traced were traced within one year of being purchased. Who knew the mafioso were so patient. Your premise that the number of traces makes a gun shop a problem is questionable.
5025 employees? Your kidding right? The Dept of Agriclture has over 100,000 employees.
You are the one claiming that only 1% of gun shops are the problem AND that 5025 employees are not enough to regulate 562 dealers (the 1% of type 1 & 2 FFLs). The ATF is a Bureau; not a Department. The Dept. of Justice has over 111,000 employees. The Department of Agriculture is mostly not a law enforcement agency and does much more than the ATF and deals with far, far more farms than there are gun shops. The focus on regulating guns of the already law-abiding is resources that do not go to actually trying to prevent crimes from occurring.
sdog replied to Mr. Jordon
Tue 22 Jan 13 (02:06am)
Paging Mr Jordon. Mr Jordon, whose ass has just been comprehensively fact-checked, white courtesy telephone please. If you would like to reclaim your pants, please see Col. Milquetoast in the fact-checking department on the second level. Thank you.
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